Confronting the Pain: Overcoming Toxic Mother-Daughter Relationships and Family Dysfunction

What if the person who’s supposed to nurture and protect you is the one causing the most harm? On this deeply personal episode of Deep for the Week, we shine a light on the rarely discussed pain inflicted by toxic, abusive mothers. I share my own journey through the emotional neglect and trauma inflicted by my mother, while our brave guest, Zawana from Norristown, Pennsylvania, recounts her harrowing experiences with a single mother and an abusive father. Together, we confront the societal pressures that often silence daughters and prevent them from healing.

We unravel the intricate and often painful dynamics of family dysfunction, focusing on the long-lasting impact of emotional disconnection, favoritism, and unresolved mental health issues. Our conversation doesn’t shy away from the harsh reality of growing up in an environment where expressing emotions is often seen as disrespectful. We discuss the challenges of setting boundaries and breaking free from trauma bonds with family members who remain closely tied to the abuser. This episode is a raw exploration of the courage required to recognize and address toxic family dynamics.

Join us as we navigate through the complexities of strained mother-daughter relationships and the journey toward personal healing. We delve into the importance of mentors, open communication, and creating a nurturing environment for future generations. Our discussion underscores the necessity of personal growth, the empowerment that comes with distancing oneself from toxic relatives, and the validation found in recognizing and rectifying past wrongs. This episode challenges the notion that blood relations equate to family, emphasizing the importance of setting boundaries and seeking healthier, more supportive relationships.

Chapters

• 0:01 Toxic Mothers
• 5:16 Family Dysfunction and Emotional Disconnection
• 15:00 Family Betrayal and Emotional Disconnection
• 24:51 Breaking the Cycle of Dysfunction
• 29:17 Discovering Family Trauma and Denial
• 38:57 Family Dysfunction and Emotional Trauma
• 43:28 Navigating Complex Mother-Daughter Relationships
• 56:14 Surviving Toxic Family Dynamics
• 1:05:07 Breaking Generational Cycles of Dysfunction
• 1:18:32 Building Friendship Through Conversation

Transcript

Kali: 0:01

It's the Deep for the Week talk show. Are you like to see us discuss on the Deep for the Week show? Also, comment below and let us know. And if you'd like to be a guest on the Deep for the Week show, comment below as well and we'll get you started with that.

Kali: 0:35

So today's show is about toxic, abusive mothers. See, we often talk about not having a good father and how that can affect a child, but what about when that child is left with the scorn, hurt, mad, abusive, compulsive mother? The results of that can leave one with mental trauma or illness in adulthood, like PTSD, anxiety and so many other disorders. I believe we tend to overlook these things in our mothers, especially as girls, because we feel some type of obligation to be loyal to them, regardless of what they do. And I think that loyalty comes from we know the sacrifice of birthing and carrying us. So as a woman, we feel that we have to be again loyal to them, regardless of what they do. But should we feel like this, as we do not ask to be born or choose to be born, should we say, you know, in another dimension? Some believe we do choose our parents, but I don't know how to feel about that because if that's the case I wouldn't have picked my parents, especially not my mom. But as we talk to some people, they believe that that is true and they have observed me and they feel I've been put in my family's life because I'm very empathetic and strong and they feel I've been put in my family's life because I'm very empathetic and strong and I'm able to verbalize my points with assertiveness and exchange energy that you can feel. That means business and requires respect more than attention. So maybe I was brought to my family to heal a bunch of excuse. My language fucked up people, but that's all I can see. You know what I mean Because I don't get anything from them.

Kali: 2:02

But as far back as I can remember, my mom was never happy. She was never giddy. I have no memories of her like saying you look so pretty today, or hugging me after dressing me or validating me for getting good grades. It was just. You know, I can't even remember the amount of times she said I love you as I got older, her telling me she loved me. It felt awkward because I was not even used to hearing it. You know what I mean. So, as today, I feel awkward still sometimes hearing it from new people. You know it feels awkward.

Kali: 2:31

I can remember the amount of hugs, you know, as there was not many and they felt awkward as I rolled into my teenage years because they were also rare, you know, and something hurt my mom, I believe, really bad, when she was maybe a child or even in her adulthood, and she took all her emotions out on me. So I never felt wanted. I always felt unwanted, ugly or abused and hated, like you know, the child that she didn't want, because I have three siblings. So as I look back, as a little girl I was so innocent. I remember changing, becoming hard, like tomboyish you know what I'm saying and I think that was like a coping mechanism and I use it in the wrong areas of life sometimes.

Kali: 3:12

So, um, now, like I constantly I guess what they would say astral project, but I don't know what that is like, how to do that, but I constantly heal the little girl that I know. You know, like, talk to the little me, like what would I have, you know, and console so I can thrive today. You know what I mean. So it gets deep. You know what I mean. It gets deep and you know I have some stuff that I went through in my childhood with her that made me just not like her. We'll go over that stuff and you probably will ask me those questions, as I ask you those questions. So I brought a guest with us today you guys to also. I wanted to hear someone else's perspective, you know about this, and so we're going to ask her some questions. Let's start with what's your name and where you're from.

Speaker 2: 3:56

Hi, my name is Zawana and I'm from Norristown, Pennsylvania.

Kali: 4:05

OK, and you don't have to tell us like your exact age, but like you know what era was you born in? The 80s, 90s, 80s, baby, okay, me too just had my birthday the other day. I'm getting old, we're getting old girl, but we still looking young, okay, um. So how would you describe your mother and like your relationship with?

Speaker 2: 4:22

her. Oh, to be honest, I'll say, like cats and dogs, I never understood that until I got older, you know, growing up in a household that I grew up in, you know you would think a lot of the things that went on was normalcy. She was a single mother. My father wasn't consistent and when he did come in, you know, to the household, it was he just brought a whole bunch of physical abuse, trauma, you know, and I used to think, you know, you know, the older I got, that maybe you know that's why she started acting the way she act towards me and I just couldn't piece it, I just didn't. You know, it was just a lot of things. When you're younger you're thinking that that's normal. It's not normal until you get older and you see other families and you're like, ooh, wow, it is some normalcy in this world.

Speaker 2: 5:16

You know, um cats and dogs, very dysfunctional and, like you had mentioned, um, you didn't remember you probably, uh, uh, really couldn't count how many, how many times she had said she loved you, um hugs. You know it was like a lack of emotional um connections. You know it was like a lack of that. No, uh, a lot of uh criticizing.

Speaker 2: 5:40

Yeah so it's just it just wasn't fun's. Still, you know, today we have no relationship, but growing up, like I said, it was a disconnect. Disconnect, no connection to be 10.

Kali: 6:07

So the last time I seen her, my daughter was like about six months, okay, um, it's just like it was enough. Then it was just like why am I still doing this? You know what I mean. Like it just it does not feel right. It feels wrong now. You know what I mean. Like you said, being around other people's and then having friends, girlfriends and their mothers accept me and love me, it's like what's wrong with this lady and she's just so awkward. You know what I mean. And so you can start comparing it and it begins to hurt even more as an adult because you're like she's not gonna change right, it's just worse. You know you can't ignore it as an adult, as a child, you kind of cope with it because you think it's normal.

Kali: 6:40

Yeah, you think it's normal as a child, yeah, and then you have to deal with it because you have nowhere to go. So you're like you know, I'm just going to try to ignore it as much as I can, or you know, but until you can't, no more. You know what I mean, yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:54

And you know it was worse for me, like growing up, because you know a lot of things that I can express now as an adult I wasn't able to express as what? 11 year old girl, you know, trying to use my voice because what in the black household, that's what? Considered talking back, exactly Expressing my hurt. You know, you know my fears, um, you know I feel like I'm being mistreated. You know, just trying to express my feelings overall as 11, 12 year old little girl. Oh, that's talking back. Oh, you're lying, you're just jealous, you're just miserable, you know. I mean, oh, don't say that you're talking back now.

Kali: 7:29

I couldn't use my voice yeah at all, we couldn't even say the word. Lying in my house, it was considered a bad word. It was like okay, how do you say that they're not telling the truth? Then, like you know, and so you know, the first time I had like emotions that I was like four years old and it was like it was the first time I experienced like knowing like my mom is something wrong with her, like it was very awkward. So my sister is seven years older than me and her best friend at the time. Her mother and father were preachers, so the mother and the father was, know, preachers, so the mother, the father was a preacher and the mother was a preacher's wife. So we went to spend out over their house and you know, back in the day it was like your sister go, you go. You know I had to go with her and she had a sister about my age too, so we spent the night over there.

Kali: 8:18

That morning she got me dressed for church, you know I'm saying, and she butt me up and stuff and she was you look so pretty, and that was like the first time at four, that was the first time I've ever experienced that and I broke down crying like like I had failed or something like you know how. Like you cried as a kid, not like silent tears. I was crying like, and she's like what did I do, you know? And at four I could not explain to her what I was feeling, you know, I mean, but it was like I know now that I've been treated wrong through that emotion you just gave me, because I've never heard that before and it hurts at the same time, but it feels so good.

Kali: 9:02

It was some mixed emotion, you know. Like finally, but why has nobody ever done this? You know I'm saying so I broke down. I never stopped crying. I cried for like 30 minutes and it was like she was like we got to go to church, so she took me back to my mom, and you know my mom's like oh, I'm sorry for that playing.

Kali: 9:20

You know the role like she cares and shit, so now putting on a whole facade. Yeah, you know I'm by herself cares and shit, so now she's putting on a whole facade, yeah you know I'm by herself now and I already know what's about to happen.

Kali: 9:29

She beat me for like an hour. You know it felt like an hour because she stopped and then started again. You know what I mean and it was just like. This is exactly why I hate you, right? You know what I mean and I can honestly say I never really like, I never really loved her either. Like as an adult people be like how can you say that? And I'm like because I know what that emotion is now, you know, and it's like she never gave me the opportunity to love her. You know so, and she never taught you love exactly.

Speaker 2: 10:02

How would you know how to love someone if she didn't you know, if you weren't brought up on it from her?

Kali: 10:07

a woman, right? Do you have uh sisters and brothers? Yes, I do, yeah um, I have three.

Speaker 2: 10:15

I have, um one sister and two brothers. Okay, believe it or not, they're actually close with her. But you know, um, it's like I really consider it a trauma bond, right.

Speaker 2: 10:27

And they don't know how to hold her accountable. They're scared to hold her accountable. So it's like this little trauma bond and you know she's been a single mother, she's been the glue and they just don't know how to detach from that. You know, I'm not just saying detach, like you know, distance yourself and completely just don't talk to her. You can still have a relationship. You know, distance yourself and completely just don't talk to her. You can still have a relationship, you know, with her, but set boundaries. And that's just what I did. But as of right now it's no relationship. Yeah, now sometimes you give chance after chance after chance and you drain yourself out.

Speaker 2: 10:59

I've been like overwhelmed. You know I am big on forgiveness and all that. You know, forgive, forget, but I give chances. But I feel like if it's really damaging me I let go. And that's been damaging me emotionally and mentally. And you know, growing up it did psychological damage because now she's projecting all that stuff that she went through and all the hate that she had for herself. Projecting that on me exactly. You're miserable, you're having mental health issues or you know depression. I don't know exactly, I just knew. You know from what I knew um growing up, that you know she suffered from depression. Any other diagnosis I'm not aware of. You know, I don't know if she's.

Speaker 2: 11:43

You know saw, you know, saw, uh, uh, let me see a specialist or anyone you know from the time that we had went. When we went, uh, to therapy, let me see, we were about teenagers, we're preteens and she had went, you know she, I remember her going about twice and after that she was sending us and we're like 12 years old, 11 and not knowing why we're getting sent to therapy, but we're just going, we just have to go, it's mandated, we have to go.

Speaker 2: 12:12

She attended two sessions and I don't remember, you know, attending them anymore, but like I said, I am aware of the depression, but any other, if there were any, that was hidden and I do believe.

Kali: 12:34

I do believe that there were some more issues that she just was in denial about. You know, yeah, I believe my mom had a lot you know, yeah, it was tough and I didn't understand.

Speaker 2: 12:43

I said, growing up, I said, wow, like you said I would. You know, I thought it was just me. I'm like what is what's wrong with me? Like you know, our relationship with my siblings is like peaches and cream. What am I doing wrong? You know, I felt like I was.

Kali: 12:59

It's crazy when they pick one kid not to like, I think that really makes it more traumatizing. They pick one kid not to like. I think that really makes it more traumatizing because it's like if you see or like that with all of them, and then you still have somebody to cope with. You know what I'm saying, but it's like it's just me that you don't like. You know it makes it way worse. You know, I experienced that because my sister that's seven years older. It was like it was like a cinderella situation almost. You know, because we all have different dads, you know, and my dad left at like three, four and you know they're all seven. My brother's 13 years older than me. So I have a brother and a sister and, um, yeah, it was just like she always kissed my mom's ass. So it was like, you know, she was mean to me, my sister was mean to me. I was like what the fuck is and that's exactly what I felt with my siblings.

Speaker 2: 13:48

Whenever me and my mom would have disagreements, which was, you know, was very often, always, often, and it's just like I just didn't understand, because this started this, you know, has been going on since I've been like, you know, elementary school age, young, five, six, seven is always a disconnect, always some type of feuding between me and my mother, the woman who brought me into this world, and then when we me and her could never have a disagreement without everyone else disagreeing with me, and guess what, I said she made it's like I don't know if you experienced that, but it's because she was making you out to feel like, to look compulsive and you were the compulsive kid, you were the bad kid and you know, and it was crazy, you know, because they do that and it's just it's a full narcissism.

Kali: 14:31

It's like dealing with so much like your mother is a narcissism. She's an abuser, you know, and it's just like how do you tell someone this as a kid? And then, like you go outside and they it looks so perfect to everybody. So it's like what's the problem?

Speaker 2: 14:46

You guys have food, the whole facade yeah.

Kali: 14:49

You know. So it makes it so hard and it still does probably look good to them. Oh yeah, she probably had her stuff together, so it's like you know.

Speaker 2: 15:00

And then, you know, I felt like she always played victim, always Like everything you just said, compulsive. You know she was the you know victim and I was the bad person. I'm this and I'm like then I would feel like she was in competition. I'm like, what are we in competition for? I'm your daughter, literally I'm your daughter Like do you see something in me that you wanted, that you didn't have growing up? What? It's something? I don't know what it was. I'm always I even, you know, took it upon myself to. You know, write her, because it's like we can't talk um face to face it always explodes did she write the calm one or she.

Speaker 2: 15:40

You know, I mean, if I'm just calm, you know, I've learned to manage my you know feelings a little bit better. I hate being made out as a liar. That's a trigger for me, that's a trigger, and that's that's my mother. That's my mother. She would point you out as the bad person, the liar and just victim, and she's just, you know.

Kali: 16:02

I think with me I take it even more personal. I'm like, oh, you're trying to make me look crazy. You know what I mean, because it's like they'll dismiss everything that you ever it's like. So you're really telling me I'm making up this stuff, you know, stuff that you just want, you're sorry, or I was going through something I shouldn't did that to you, and then, like I just never did that and you're just like and once she'd apologize.

Speaker 2: 16:26

Guess what? She never apologized publicly, she apologized behind closed doors. She wouldn't apologize, it'll be just between you know a text message. You couldn't apologize in front of everyone else. You try to make me look bad. You know, out in front of you can't apologize from the crowd. You couldn't apologize in front of my siblings. Private message like no, keep that same energy.

Kali: 16:46

Yeah exactly same energy, exactly I apologize where you cut up at. Okay, you cut up outside, apologize outside. Okay, you know it's like, please do not.

Speaker 2: 17:00

You know, yeah, you know the rest of the family, don't make it any better. Oh well, that's still your mom, okay, so, because that's still my mom, I have to, you know, stay mute, not use my voice. Um, endure all the freaking. You know it's emotional abuse, mental abuse, psychological abuse. Endure that because that's my mom. Is that what you're saying?

Kali: 17:20

yes, that's what, that's my mom, what?

Speaker 2: 17:22

what does that mean exactly? Oh well, that's still your mom.

Kali: 17:24

What I hate that statement. It's like it's really hard to rebuttal that because it's like that's not a mom and so you know. It's like it's like it's almost knowing what it's like to be a foster kid as an adult, because I'm like this is what adult foster kids feel like, because I don't go around my whole family anymore. It's just like I'm not, you know, I just it's like I'm the type of person right or right and wrong is wrong. You know what?

Kali: 17:55

I'm saying no one can ever say anything about any of this. I just can't deal with it. You know none of it Like, can't deal with it. You know none of it like. And they all they do is talk behind each other, back. You know about what's wrong, but it's like talk to the person and then when I do it I'm I'm the compulsive crazy one because I'm bringing up the issues you know. So I just was like coming at my household growing up yeah, it's crazy.

Kali: 18:21

So I guess we're the ones you know I'm saying that the the black sheep sheets, like because every family has them, every family has them, thank god, because somebody has to be the one to stop the shit it stops with us. Like because if we just be quiet then our kids think it's okay. It just keeps rippling down you know, and, yeah, someone has to be the one. It takes a bold motherfucker though, like because you have to. You know isolated and detached and you know all kind of stuff that's not normal.

Speaker 2: 18:52

People think it's normal. It's like the family's very like enmeshed, like that. Stuff is just not normal. It's like dang, you know, one wants to hold her accountable. So if y'all don't want to hold her accountable, then I'll distance myself from you guys too exactly, exactly, exactly you know, I mean they want you to suffer. And you know all that trauma and all that house. You know childhood trauma and everything.

Speaker 2: 19:17

No, that's a choice when you know better, you do better and I mean I love you. You know, just because your blood, people think that that means your family. Exactly, there's some two different definitions. Blood family is not like family anymore family.

Kali: 19:31

And then, when you get older and you experience having real relationships with your family, like your friends and their families, and like real people, then that really just really makes you be able to differentiate like this is not okay. This is not what I want for myself. I don't have to fuck with y'all because there's a title that says you're my sister, you're my brother, you're my mother and you don't act. Nothing like those titles, though, so I just have to uphold you to that.

Kali: 19:56

But you're horrible. You know I'm saying like I can't. I don't believe in that. There's a lot of people that just do that they get together with with Thanksgiving.

Speaker 2: 20:04

I can't, I can't, I cannot do it, I don't put on that I don't do it, and I guess that's probably why I'm hated by them. You know, hate it, but they're still keeping up. They're still trying to keep up, so I can't be that bad. You're trying to keep up with me still, you know it's like my sister she is.

Kali: 20:26

I detach from her as well because she Okay. So I went through some custody issues with my baby daddy because I have my older children that have a different dad than my younger kids. So I went through some custody issues because he's still tripping over that. You know just the whole teenage love shit like it's for me. And when I say tripping, ain't nobody trying to sound big on itself or nothing, but the motherfucker still rapping about me today like boy, it's really I can't you know.

Kali: 20:53

And so when we went through our custody issues, he won because I was a dancer and and at the time the judge was just like I don't know if he's been through some shit with dancers he got caught with one. He was like, oh, there's no way you could be a good mom and all this shit, right. So he won. Mind you, he owed me so much money in child support and was an absent father for eight years, but he had just got a San Diego job with the city so it looked better, okay, whatever, wow and my family my sister and my mother is still in communication with.

Kali: 21:29

So now he has custody of them and my family and sister are talking to him. He's dropping them off at their house. But when I have my kids they were like, oh, we're too busy, I can't babysit, but when he got custody, they he's at their you. But when I had my kids they were like, oh, we're too busy, I can't babysit, but when he got custody, he's at their house. I'm like, why are you even talking to this nigga, knowing he just did this to?

Speaker 2: 21:48

me that sounds familiar.

Kali: 21:50

You guys should be cool with him. It shouldn't be slamming doors like nigga. No, I'll see them when my daughter has them. I'm sorry, that's what I would do if one of my daughters was going through that with her day. You're like what weird shit am I? Is my patience too high or am I too sensitive, you know right? So I stopped talking to them. That was like the cutoff, like right, because I think they were waiting for something like that to happen to me, like, yes, we got somebody else to team up with against her and that's supposed to be your whole.

Speaker 2: 22:22

Your like blood?

Kali: 22:24

yes, it's not, we don't do that. Yeah, and when my brother tried to get involved and stick up for me, like you know, talk to him and be involved, like no, we're taking the kids anyways, and he took them to his house and she was like you need to get, you need to mind your business and get out of that. Like tell him my brother yes, so that was just like.

Speaker 2: 22:45

Yeah, it's personal.

Kali: 22:47

It's personal, yeah, and it's weird because my dad is the only one that married her. I'm not a bastard, you know what I'm saying. And it's like my sister's dad allegedly was a cracky with 20 literally 20 kids and my brother's father allegedly she got pregnant at 17 at a house party and he didn't even my brother for years because she had more than one guy that night. Right, I'm the only child that was under marriage in good condition, I'm like. So why are you treating me like the one that was made in the backseat?

Speaker 2: 23:24

And how does she feel about your father? Because I used to think it was because she didn't like my. I thought that she maybe didn't like my father, but I don't think that could be the reason why she treats me like that, and I don't.

Kali: 23:39

I don't know. I think she was hurt the most, maybe over my dad, I don't know. It's like I don't know Cause it's like I try, I try to put it together and I think, like maybe my dad heard the most, was deeply in love with him the most, and like he never, he was the one that never came back, Like after you know he. My sister seen her dad sometimes, not often, like once or twice a year. My brother seen his dad every day because he literally kicked it next door and drunk beer with the neighbors every day, but he didn't do nothing for them and neither did my sister's dad.

Speaker 2: 24:11

And I don't think that's a good enough excuse because, you know, I'm not best friends with my kids' fathers at all and I couldn't see myself treating them like I'm not best friends with my kids' fathers at all At all and I couldn't see myself treating them like that At all. It's not their father, the oldest one. You know we have some disagreements and everything, but for the most part we've always been close. My other kids we're close, very close, and, like I said, I'm not best friends with their fathers at all and I couldn't ever see myself treating them, you know, a certain way because I just like their fathers. That's just weird. So I just think that's a real petty excuse.

Kali: 24:51

Yeah, I think that, like with me, like the kids that their dad wasn't involved, I treat them you know, I give them more, because they just have me. You know what I'm saying. Like that's why you should be even nicer to them. They're going through something just as well as you.

Kali: 25:11

You know, and you know it's not their fault. It's more your fault if anything like you chose him. You know whatever it's more your fault if anything you chose him. Whatever, it's not her fault either. But if we're going to blame someone, we're going to blame you first, not the child, not the child.

Speaker 2: 25:30

I wouldn't even ever accept that excuse. Even if she ever decided something, I wouldn't accept that as an excuse. There's no excuse.

Kali: 25:39

You didn't like the way he treated you, so you treat me fucked up too.

Speaker 2: 25:42

Mm-hmm. Yeah, he was very abusive. She wasn't physically abusive, but I feel like that is just as equal as physical abuse, emotional, verbal, mental, psychological.

Kali: 25:55

It's all the same.

Speaker 2: 25:57

Yeah, it's just as bad.

Kali: 25:59

Because you keep hearing it over and over in your head, like you probably can't believe it In your head and you start to believe it.

Speaker 2: 26:07

Yeah, you start to believe it.

Kali: 26:09

Did you know your grandma?

Speaker 2: 26:11

Yeah.

Kali: 26:12

How old?

Speaker 2: 26:12

were you when you were 13? You know, I was very young. Our relationship was good yeah.

Kali: 26:19

See now that I'm older my grandmother.

Speaker 2: 26:26

I'm trying to think I was like a preteen, I was very young, but it was a good relationship and were they close.

Kali: 26:34

From what I can see. Yeah, so you think that they had a bad relationship when they were younger?

Speaker 2: 26:40

Yeah, yeah, so you think that they had a bad relationship when they were younger, when I had, you know, talked with a therapist before that's that's where she was getting at she was thinking, you know it was a strong possibility. You know, I don't know. You know, you know, most people are real private about a lot of things and I'm just trying to get to the root of the issue. I want to correct these issues. I'm trying to get to the root. They are very private.

Kali: 27:02

Back. Then they hid everything back then Right under the rug.

Speaker 2: 27:07

So it's like I'm not too sure I call it the black lie. Everything's like a lie. Now that's a good one. The whole facade, everything's a lie.

Kali: 27:18

That's a good one. It is facade, everything's a lie. That's a good one? No, it is, and it's like. I don't know if that's like from, like slavery, that we're doing this like. I believe. So you know, it's just something embedded in us to just keep quiet, can't tell.

Speaker 2: 27:30

You know it's crazy yeah, and you know, like you said, it starts with us, like we're breaking it. I'm I'm not raising my kids in that type of dysfunction. They know it. They know, mommy, don't play Exactly, you're toxic and you're still showing dysfunctional ways. You know, come to us when you're healed. They're not going to be around it. Call me whatever, they're not going to be around it. They're not going to be around it. It ain't no spending a night here, going here, out of state, there. No, you're not going to put the same thing into their you know mindset. No, exactly, and then they will talk.

Kali: 28:06

I don't even trust them. I'm like I don't trust my mom. I don't trust my mom. I don't trust my mom. I don't trust my mom. I don't heard my mom talking bad about me. She had a cell phone. She called me. Like Mom, they're over there talking about you. I pulled up. Why was that so familiar? Believe it or not, they probably would be best friends. They're probably too good Girl. Now that you get older, you start to feel sorry for them. But it's not enough to deal with him though yeah, you are so right, it's so funny.

Speaker 2: 28:47

You just said that because that's the note the um most recent for our disconnect was, you know, them, you know being overheard talking about me two years ago. Two years ago, you know, I said you know nothing changed with them.

Kali: 29:05

No, no you're keeping up with me, so can't be that bad of a person you know and you know I'm horrible to them because or they think I am because, like my sister, she keeps trying to reach out. You know I'm saying, and the last time she did it I don't like she'll inbox me on facebook because she don't have my number. And the last time she did I was just like listen, just don't. You see I don't respond. You know I'm saying just leave it alone. I'm not gonna talk back with y'all ever again. It just right. And I was like you know it's good to know because she always inboxed me. We miss you, we love you, and I'm it's good to know because she always inbox me. We miss you, we love you. And I'm like it's good to know that I gave you something to miss and to love.

Speaker 2: 29:43

That's true, and sometimes you just have to keep on where they are. And it's like some people understand that the ones who still, you know, who aren't stuck in that mentality, that mindset, and then you have some that's still stuck in that slave mentality oh, that's still your mom, slave mentality oh, that's still your mom. Well, you need to rekindle and do all this and go back and you know you're recycling that same toxic behavior and dysfunction.

Kali: 30:08

No, I'm breaking it. You gotta go through that again and you gotta keep healing and then going through all the like I don't want to keep having to heal exactly, you know. No. Now I got some new shit to heal from. No you know. No, thank you, no, no, no. And see, like with my grandma and her I know something like she was horrible, like to where I was way ahead of my age because, of it.

Kali: 30:33

You know, and my grandma. She used to live with us when I was like five or six and she would sleep next to me on the floor like she would never lay down, she would never sleep in the bed with us or nothing. She would sleep in our room and she would sit up next to my bed and that's how she slept. And I'm just like, how could you let your mom you know? So now that I'm older, like when I was a kid, I didn't care, I was glad because I was scared grandma sitting next to me every night. But now, now that I'm older, I'm like, wait a minute.

Speaker 2: 31:05

The fuck.

Kali: 31:05

You know you had your mom sitting on the floor every night, sitting up like that, and then you know my grandma would get in the bathroom. She'd be in there like three, four, five minutes top and my mom would be like hurry the fuck up and yes, oh, no Girl, that says a lot right there I got so many signs and it was just like she's not just like that with me, she's fucking crazy.

Speaker 2: 31:28

Yeah, and how she treat her friends, that's another thing.

Kali: 31:32

Yeah, look at that, she couldn't okay so that's common denominator her. Well she was beautiful, so the men kept coming. I didn't see no, she never had no homegirls, though, but why you know that part.

Speaker 2: 31:50

Now look at. You gotta not even just look at the relationship with you. You have to look at the relationship with her and other people too, and that's the thing that I had to. You know, dig deeper with you, know and look at. I said you know what? Let me see how our relationships were with other people, with her siblings, with her mother, with men, you know and that lets me, that lets you know a lot that lets you know a lot like really yeah, I wore siblings.

Kali: 32:16

They never. She didn't get along with none of her siblings. They always was added about something. And when I was about 10 years old, one day I got tired of her Because I was the last one in the house. It was like being the only child, because my sister was seven years older, she was off at college, my brother's 13 years older, he doing his thing. And one day I just asked her like what's wrong with you? Did something happen to you? Like why are you like this? Because I just got tired of it. I started talking back and shit, you know right. And um, I mean, I have seen every type of demon you could be. I'm not scared of you, no more you know so now I'm asking you like what's wrong now?

Kali: 32:56

like damn, you know. And that day I asked her like what's something happened to you when you was a kid? Why are you like this? Because I'm smart as fuck, so I'm starting. You're her, she's making me smarter, you know. I mean her shit, you know. And she was like yeah, you know. And she was like one of my brothers touched me when I was younger. She just came out and said that and I was like which one? And she would not tell me. Now she's, she's one of 14. Oh. So I started thinking like which one does she get along?

Kali: 33:28

with the work and I'm like is that did you tell your mom and she didn't do nothing about it? And is that word the why you treat her so bad? Now that you have a room to treat her bad? You know, you know you start putting shit together, right, you know, and it's just so much. I'm like she's just not normal and she's still not normal and is she in denial?

Speaker 2: 33:56

because that's what I see. That's a trait that I see. Yes, my mother's always in denial, she's gonna. She in denial Because that's what I see, that's a trait that I see. Yes, my mother's always in denial, she's going to be in denial. Mm-hmm, and when they're in denial, they try to make you feel guilty.

Kali: 34:10

Well, because for them to be admit or take accountability, they have to admit that they were that demon, mm-hmm or that mean, but to a kid it feels like a demon. You know you see other kids, mothers picking them up, swinging arms, holding hands and hugging them, and they run into their mom and it's just like you walk to your mom. You know you regret even seeing your mom like. I remember telling my teacher in first grade at Mother's Day. You know she was like. You know she came to my desk and she still was like why haven't you started making your Mother's Day card? And I was like because I don't like my mom and I don't want to like. And I remember her like yes, and I remember her kneeling down like at eye level to my desk and she was like her name was Miss Cool. I will never forget her because I had her for years. And she was like sweetie, your mom loves you. She's probably she's got to discipline you sometime. And I told her no, she disciplines me because she doesn't love me.

Kali: 35:12

And I remember that asian lady face just shaking. I when I was a kid I didn't know what that mean because I've never seen an adult cry, right, but we don't see that shit right. Oh so her face was just shaking and now, as an adult, I remember she was holding back tears, you know what I mean. Like that was deep to her. That was deep to her and her being Asian. You know they're definitely not like that. So she's going to go a Asian, you know they're definitely not like that. So she's probably like no fucking way, you know, and she's working in the like ghetto too. So she's just like, probably in tears every day about something else.

Kali: 35:48

Like this is.

Speaker 2: 35:49

You know a little girl saying this in the first grade, but that was deep because you said you know, no, she disciplines me because she doesn't love me.

Kali: 35:56

I felt that yes, and I just knew it. You know, I'm saying like I remember my first day of kindergarten I will never forget it because she ruined it. I have fell on the playground, mind. You know she shopped at kmart, wasn't like I had levi's or guests, right right.

Kali: 36:13

So I fall and I get a hole in my pants and it burns through my hole, you know I get it burnt and gives me a scab as well. I fell hard, clearly, and it don't take no genius to figure like she had to fall. You know, she, she accredits it to me crawling around on my knees on the concrete and I burned a hole into my pants and, I guess, crawled until I got a scab too, girl, and she made she made me. Now, mind you, my cousin lived with us, my auntie lived with us, my grandma lived with us. We had a house full of people, my sister, my brother. She made me crawl around that whole fucking house on my knees while she whooped me. And I'm looking around at people like ain't nobody going to say nothing. Nobody stopped her. Everybody's scared of the beast. She's a fucking.

Speaker 2: 36:58

Oh my goodness, that's the and that's when you that's what I, that's what made me cut everyone off. No one was accountable, like you said, intimidation or something like. What is it? What is it?

Kali: 37:08

girl and you know, I just remember looking back at her like are you really doing this to me? And that's when I really lost the connection with her, like I just I don't this is. I hate this lady like this. I was like five, it was kindergarten that's super young yeah, and you know stuff you just never forget.

Kali: 37:31

I wouldn't you know it's like and I bring that up to you're lying, okay, so I'm just making all this up. I hate that. I hate it. Do you know if your mom had an addiction? I feel like my mom did, but she hated it. I know she drank a lot. I think she did. I think she did dip a little bit.

Speaker 2: 37:59

Not that I was, no, I never saw. Did dip a little bit in them, but yeah, not that I was, no, I never saw her, you know, touch a um, a drink or, uh, any illegal substances.

Kali: 38:07

I know my mom smoked weed. I know she drank a lot but I've never seen her do like coke or nothing. But I'm just like, I just feel like she did, because like stuff that I can remember and then like stories I hear, I'm like you know how you can put stuff together and it's just like you won't date somebody that does drugs if you don't know, if you're not doing it, yeah, yeah, for not for long.

Speaker 2: 38:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I never saw her dipping into drugs or drinking or anything like. That's one thing I can say. So I don't know.

Kali: 38:41

I smoked weed with my mom at like 12, 13, so dipping into drugs or drinking or anything like that.

Speaker 2: 38:45

That's one thing I can say. I don't know. I smoked weed with my mom at like 12, 13.

Kali: 38:48

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You said you smoked weed with your mom At like 13, yeah, Girl.

Speaker 2: 38:53

yes, that's why I'm like it was just that says a lot too.

Kali: 38:56

That says a lot. It was a lot. It was like, okay, I respect you now you know, yeah, and she was never diagnosed with a mental illness, but I really think, like you said, you know, I think she had some and now that I'm older, I think she had pmdd for sure. P who? Pmdd? It's like um it's. It comes with your period and menopause. Yeah, I know what you're talking about and I think she had that and she had her. She had a hysterectomy at 39. So Wow, yeah, she just may have. Wow, it was just a lot.

Speaker 2: 39:40

How nine?

Kali: 39:42

uh, how old were you? I was nine years old because she had me at 30, so I was about nine years old. Okay, yeah, and that was awkward because I had to help take care of her. She's never been nurturing to me. You know I'm saying so. It's like I gotta touch you and bring you water and feed you about it with. You know what I'm saying. So it's like I gotta touch you and bring you water and feed you about it with you know, and it was just like I don't want to do this.

Speaker 2: 40:03

I don't like her and then your other siblings. They're older than you said. They got like a better version of her yes, but they know she's crazy too.

Kali: 40:15

they do. Like my brother, he kind of swept it under the rug. You know he was a dope boy, so he was selling drugs by 15 and getting out the house and making so much money he paid his way out Right.

Speaker 2: 40:28

And my sister.

Kali: 40:29

She was just a kiss ass. She could do no wrong. That's what I don't do. My sister was a kid. She used to make herself look like a good mom okay you know, sent her to college and, you know, paid more attention to her, treated her like she was. You know she was a cheerleader, she got to do everything, not one. That it was too expensive?

Speaker 2: 40:55

no, it's too expensive so would you say, well, they got the healthier version of your mother.

Kali: 41:01

Yeah, and my sister still does. She still does Like cause she has lupus. So my mom is like, she treats her like you know, oh, we gotta go Like. Before I stopped talking to them, you know it would be like, oh, we gotta go check on your sister, and it's just like, yeah, you know, and it's crazy Cause it's old lady, she's dead now. She told me one day. She said you know, my sister died and my parents, they favored her.

Kali: 41:28

And I think God took her so that my parents could realize you got other kids. And I was like, oh, that's deep, like you know. But it was coming from her and she just lost her sister. And she still said that. And then she mentioned like you know, maybe god is taking your sister so that she can realize you got other kids, like you know. And I was like well, I hope you don't do that to her because she don't have other kids. I'm not coming around, right? You know what I mean. I'm, I'm not coming back, I'm sorry she's like your shit's toxic as fuck.

Speaker 2: 42:10

It's very, very, very interesting.

Kali: 42:16

Wow, it was a lot.

Speaker 2: 42:22

You did try addressing it and she just brushed it off. When, um, I did try to uh address it, uh, a bunch of times, I always remember being um silent, like, oh you just a kid, you talking back? You know you acting too grown or you don't know what you're talking about. Shut up, I'm not doing this and you know you're crazy. And all this other weird stuff that you try to, you know, project on me and had me to believe you know, or try to make me believe. Yeah, and it worked for a while. I'm like you know what? Hold on, man, you're the one. You're the one.

Kali: 42:57

You need to go get some help, okay one, you're the one you need to go get some help. Okay, you know you get your validation stuff as well that they go through. You start getting validation through a lot of things if you pay attention and then sometimes you get them calls. You hear about things you're like okay, you know. So I've gotten my validation like through a lot of things through, sometimes through her exes, you know.

Speaker 2: 43:24

Yeah, and I've had a few people you know say some things. Who are, you know, close to her you know? Oh well, she's singing this, then the apple ain't too far from the tree, you know, try to throw some shots back at her, Right, I'm like, wow, you know.

Kali: 43:42

Yeah, does she try to talk to your kids?

Speaker 2: 43:44

and stuff. Um, she does have a relationship with the um oldest one, um, and the other ones, no, she won't try and that's so awkward for me like I, I have this.

Kali: 43:56

I'm like uh, it's like I don't want you to not like her, but it's just like I don't want my kids around nobody that don't like me. So it's like so hard, yes, and the oldest one is talking to her right now.

Speaker 2: 44:08

Um, you know, basically because her and I, my oldest child, had had some disagreement.

Kali: 44:14

Um, that's girl.

Speaker 2: 44:15

We got something I could talk to you off camera about. You know that I don't mind talking to you about that part. I'll share that another time with you. But you know, just haven't been seen eye to eye. You know, sometimes when mothers and daughters do clash, you know when mothers actually really want the best for their daughters, one of those type of situations. So she knows she can just run to my mother because my mother, you know, going to have an open door, because she's going to you know, support you, I guess, financially, and you know gifts and things like that. What else, you know? What else are you getting out of it, right? No, you're going to her, you know, because she's going to give you money, she's going to give you gifts or you know other things. Just, I feel like you know bribing her with gifts and everything like that, and then I, honestly, I do kind of feel like she's keeping us, my daughter and I, you know, distant from each other. She's in her ear. I feel like she's in my daughter's ear.

Kali: 45:09

They'd like to have people to be against you with them have a whole clique. A whole clique. Yeah, it validates. Oh, you know, it's not me, it's them, because I got all these people that don't like me with you, you know, and so, yeah, no, I'm going through that with my oldest too, like you know, over some stuff till we can talk off camera.

Speaker 2: 45:34

And it's like but all of a sudden you know, her and my mom are just Yep, and it's like I was like, wow, you know, but my other, you know, my other kids are very aware, you know they. When they want to talk about things or they want to express their concerns and all the other stuff, they will pick up the phone and talk and everything that they know what's right, they know. What's wrong. They know what's right. They know who, the relationship, who you know, who has their best interest, who actually cares, you know.

Kali: 46:06

Yes, good, because that means you've been teaching them about boundaries. Yeah, that's good because that means you've been teaching them about boundaries. Yeah, for sure, because, yeah, it's necessary. Like I even told my second oldest, I'm like you know, and that's like you know. I tell her like, even if I start acting like a bitch, you're not obligated to deal with me Because I'm your mom. You know, like I don't care who it is.

Kali: 46:32

I didn't teach you to let anyone treat you bad. Right, that's true. And so it's just so hard to let anybody treat me bad, no matter who it is, you know. So, yeah, I have a relationship with my brother. Me and my brother are close because he's so much older. He treated me like these little baby, you know, yeah, and but me and my sister we don't talk at all because it's just like right, you know she wants to pretend everything was okay and I'm just like, okay, you could pretend maybe that's why you're sick, because you're at disease. You know, I mean you're, you're you holding in all that shit and it does make you sick. You know, somebody is at this ease for too long to cause a disease. So you know, you're still holding it in and I'm just like maybe that I can't pretend for my whole life you've been, you know, and maybe that's accumulated too much stress for your body to handle.

Speaker 2: 47:24

Yeah, yeah, and pretending stuff, and I'm very, very different. You're okay with going like that I'm like all right.

Speaker 2: 47:34

Well, y'all go ahead and be this big old, happy dandy family if y'all want, you know, and act like everything is normal when it's not. Y'all don't want to correct the issues and do the work and do the homework and be consistent and bring the things, get to the root of the issue and hold the root of the issue accountable. You don of the issue and hold the root of the issue accountable. If you don't want to do that, just stay where you are. It's peaceful without all that drama and all that other mess. It's so peaceful.

Kali: 47:57

It's what you called it. It's the black lie. You got to do a whole show girl on your thing about that, because it's like that I'm going to talk to you about that off camera.

Speaker 2: 48:07

I'm going to talk to you about something else I want to touch on. Either I'll save it for another podcast or we can talk about it. We'll touch on that.

Kali: 48:20

Yeah, about the black line. Yes, because it's an issue. It needs to stop. It does need to stop. Why can't we talk what the fuck? We don't have those things that they had up muzzles like the slave muscles, but they're not gonna get one of those. If you say something, you know it's crazy. I mean, my mom is older so I'm like you know they do have that energy still and she's from frontis, mississippi, so deep in the south. Yeah, you know, did you ever find like another female older person to like that you can confide in like a mom?

Speaker 2: 49:02

yes, yeah, she actually, uh, prefers me to carl. Okay, no, we actually got deep into that. I said, well, you feel so much like a mother. She said, yeah, I don't want to take that title. She was like you know, no matter, you know. It got really, really deep. She said call me, auntie. You know I will always be there for you. And she kept her word. Still here to this day, me and and the kids. She's showing up. She's showing up like a mama and showing up like a grandmother to the kitties, you know that's lovely, still here and I felt like it was really something I've always needed that's good, that's a blessing.

Kali: 49:42

You know that's a big because you know the days, like mother's days and like you know, just talk about it, just you know it's like who do you call and it that's, you know because I know you had, uh, wanted to ask me about that.

Speaker 2: 49:58

How do I feel you know, well, mother's day and holidays like that come around and I'm not gonna say I don't think about you know her, or you know just mother's day in general and stuff I do. You know, I'll shoot a little text and everything, but I still have my boundaries set, you know, to be happy Mother's Day and we'll just move on from there. Happy Mother's Day, it's like I told you, it's like a disconnect, but I'll still, you know, extend my, you know, happy Mother's Day to her, message her, and then you know, we go on from there. It's nothing else after that. It's dry, yeah, on both, you know both sides it's very, very, very dry. Like I said, disconnect the disconnect you're still trying.

Kali: 50:40

You know, I mean like you're still like trying to be the good person, because that's what you are, and then you know you're thinking maybe I'll get a different response. It's like you said, but they expect people I try. Yeah, I don't think you're supposed to try that hard though that's where I was getting at.

Speaker 2: 51:03

I tried and I tried and I tried. But it's like you know how your body tells you when you're tired, your body will tell you. I feel like that's what I've been experiencing. You know I'm just, you know I'm tired. You want to reach out and, like I said, you come to me, come to me Hill, come to me Hill. I don't know when you're Hill, I really will.

Speaker 2: 51:22

I've done my work. You know I shouldn't have to have. You know I shouldn't have to do all this work as a daughter trying to correct a lot of wounds and everything like that. It's just not. I don't feel like a child should have to correct a whole bunch of mistakes that they didn't create. I'm not the root of the issues. The root of the issues is started way before I was here. You clearly maybe had some issues before you know I was born. Clearly, relationships I don't know what type of relationships, I don't know if it's with your parents, with your lovers, I don't know but clearly there was some issues before you brought me into this world yes, yes, and it's just like I said to you before though it's like it's funny how they pick who they want to use as their punching bag.

Kali: 52:17

You know, and it's just. You know, and so you know now. You, like you said, now we had stuff that we had and it took all my twenties, almost my all my, my 30s, to heal from this shit. You realize you had good men in your life sometimes, but you were not healed. You realize all the stuff you're going through as you're healing like, oh my God, I went through this because I wasn't healed. That's why I stay away, because I don't want to go back to that dark place. Yup, cause it's a very dark place.

Speaker 2: 52:55

You know, and do you feel like more at peace? Like I really feel like a peaceful sensation. And you know, you know, at one point you probably will experience being, you know, being lonely and stuff when you separate yourself from people and family and dysfunction. But I just feel like more. I feel more at peace.

Speaker 2: 53:14

I done moved y'all, I'm out of state, I'm everything, and it's like I just got away from a lot of it. I just couldn't, I couldn't do it anymore. It was really taking a toll, like mentally and stuff. I said you know what I'm going to be. The change I'm going to raise my children different. They're not going to be the change I'm going to raise my children different. They're not going to be around it. You know how can I have them set their boundaries and you know what. You know. You know bring them up, you know, in a household full of love and how you're supposed to be loved and treated and talked to. And you know just, you know I don't want to offer, I wouldn't ever want to offer them any type of childhood trauma, because that's what I enjoyed, it just wasn't a fun experience.

Speaker 2: 53:55

And it's like when you go through all that, you're really missing out on your childhood Because there's a lot of things that I couldn't do because we're stuck in a household full of abuse. It wasn't many parties we were able to attend because there was always some type of dysfunction going on. There was always fights, arguments, are we're in a shelter here and here, or, you know, staying at grandma's house, and it was just, I don't know, it just wasn't a fun childhood. So here I go at my big old age, trying to be a big old kid.

Kali: 54:27

Girl every chance I get. I was just on the downtown acting like a kid yesterday, okay, like I don't even care, you know, and you have to, you have to. It's like you are doing everything that they did not do for that kid right now, like you know. And it's okay. Somebody has to do it, you know. But it like with me. I'm engaged now, so I have awkward moments like okay.

Kali: 54:52

It's been, it's now two years now, but I'm engaged now. So I have awkward moments like, okay, it's now two years now, but I'm like, okay, if we don't get married or not, we gotta do this. I don't know. But if we are, it's like I'm having all these awkward moments like, okay, no dad to walk me down, no mom. They're like you know, that's when it starts feeling awkward again. I'm like I'm healed, but it's just like it's coming back up again. You know, because stuff like that, you know, and it's coming back up again. You know, because stuff like that, you know, and it's just, it's a lot Like you're healed, but it always comes back up. You know what I mean. So, yeah, it's good to talk to someone else, you know.

Speaker 2: 55:23

So if you guys, you know when you guys do have your little ceremony, do you have any mother-like figures, or would you be able to have his mother walk you down the aisle, or um, see, I have women in my life that I call mom because I've been friends with their kids since like fifth grade and stuff.

Kali: 55:41

I'd rather them be a part of it and like his mom is not that great. Um, she got some of those underlying issues too, and she said that, you know, she, she ran across the wrong method because I'm not the one that's gonna be like, oh, it's your mom, that's okay, I'm not. So she thought she was gonna be rude and be back. You know, oh, this is my son and I'm first like show me that energy, and I'm like girl, bye, you could. It's crazy, though, because God don't play when you write. Let me tell you how she got. Like she tried to break us up so bad, and I think he don't see that still, like sometimes he does, sometimes he don't, and it's just like I'm the type like I'm not zipping out from telling them, I'm pointing out everything, like you don't see that because they'll try to make you look crazy.

Kali: 56:29

So, like we got habit of keeping receipt now, because of what we've been through, you know what I mean and I've kept all these receipts on and I'm like look, look, look, look. And then it's like now he started to see it and it was just like you know it's crazy because he asked me to marry him on his, on her birthday, and I don't even think he realized that he did that. You know what I'm saying? Like it just happened to happen that way and so when he had to call her on her birthday, he was like, oh yeah, guess what, by the way? And it's just like. So, lady, you know all that acting out, you did. And look at you, you needed to come. You know you tried real hard. You get rid of it, you know so you ain't even. Sometimes Carmen will fight them battles for you sometimes you know, yeah, so I don't want her either.

Kali: 57:28

No, thank you, I don't even really want her. You know no bad energy. I don't even really want her here. You know no bad energy. I don't want to have to monitor spirits at my wedding. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 57:38

I'm big on that. I'm big on that. Who I bring into my household? Oh, in my space, my children's space, oh, I'm so big on that. Yeah, you know what I mean.

Kali: 57:52

We got a lot in common because I moved away from my family. I'm in Detroit. All my family's in California now.

Speaker 2: 57:57

Okay.

Kali: 57:59

People ask me all the time you don't miss your family. You're not. How do you live? I don't know nobody here.

Speaker 2: 58:03

Excuse me.

Kali: 58:05

But it feels so good, it's like so peaceful. It's never felt better actually. Yeah, it's crazy how we got a lot in common we do and I said that's why we connect.

Speaker 2: 58:22

I said this is something that really draws me to your energy, your vibe, what is it? And then, hearing your story more and more, I'm like no wonder why. Okay, that's exactly why. Yeah, it's like everything we went through as a kid. It was very relatable.

Kali: 58:41

Yeah, very much so, and it feels good to be able to talk to some other kids, like you said, someone that's not going to say, well, that's your mom, or someone that's saying maybe you should talk to her.

Speaker 2: 58:53

You know it's like Rekindle and you know, damage yourself all over again.

Kali: 58:57

You know, it's good to know someone, and, like you know, you were saying, like you experienced being alone at first. I feel alone, but I realize we're not alone or we're not lonely, we're alone, you, you know, and so there's a difference, you know, and so now I'm not lonely, I'm alone, just me and my kids.

Speaker 2: 59:20

I'm good with that, though yep you know, and you know it was different for, uh, my children to adapt to that, but they knew how it was like you know it was you know better for them. They're starting to get older, mature and they have a very you know good understanding of you know what's going on, who's healthy, who's. You know who's healthy to be around, who's not healthy to be around and you know they're very smart, smart children.

Speaker 2: 59:44

So that's good, like I said, you know, young people don't understand oh well, where is such and such, or where's such a such, how come such, such? Doesn't come past no more. Or you, you know, when you're young they don't understand oh well, where is such and such? Or where is such and such, how come such and such? Doesn't come past no more. Or you know what I mean, when you have that little trauma bond going on and you know you don't disconnect from them and you're stuck in the same city and town as them and they pop up when they want to pop up to your house, no invitation. You know it was easy to, but you can't do it now because I'm what. I'm like I don't know how many states away, and it's just okay, it's just okay, it's just better like that.

Kali: 1:00:15

It's crazy because when my fiance watched the show and he hear you saying that shit, he gonna be like damn he be hearing me say the same thing. Like it's just, I'm so happy can't nobody pop up at my house. I swear I be saying all this stuff. So it's so relatable and it feels so good to know, because he'd be thinking I'm tripping.

Speaker 2: 1:00:35

It's not the only one.

Speaker 2: 1:00:35

You're not the only one you know, and because their family's not that great, but they sticking together regardless and it's just like I can't, I can't, y'all do that you know I'm saying I'm not, I'm not for that, and I think a lot of people admire that about me, like, like, I'm just not, you know, and it's funny because I see a lot of people. I wouldn't use the word funny, let me clear that up. But I just see it. You know, it's more and more common now where a lot of family members are disconnected from the toxic family members. Or I see, you know, you see more and more black sheep and everybody's venting on Facebook, social media, telling me how this parent did this or this sibling did that, and then now nobody's talking to them. It's just common.

Kali: 1:01:25

So today's episode about toxic mothers, it got deep for us today. I got really transparent with you all. I've been wanting to do a show about this because I don't always want to sound like I'm venting or like talking bad about my mother, and there's like a lot of people that want to ask me these questions, or you know, where does it start from? Why? What is it like? Why are you, you know, um, especially when they see the relationship with my siblings? So, um, they tend to, they tend to question me a lot and it's good to see and or hear someone that can relate to it in the real sense. I am glad that I have talked to you because it feels good to talk to people about it. It's like therapy to talk to people about it. It's like therapy, kind of you know, to talk to someone that can relate and they've been through it, and that's not going to say, you know, think you're lying for attention or whatever people be thinking that we're on.

Kali: 1:02:22

You know, I'm saying like you feel all type of energies when you're telling your story to people, you know it's like sometimes you feel you know that they don't even believe you. So it just feels good to talk to someone else and we're born around the same time. Maybe it's an error thing, I don't know it could be.

Speaker 2: 1:02:43

I think it's common, uh, in that, uh, that generation. But let me see, so the 80s, yeah, yeah, mm-hmm, and so A lot of this was like common, because I know my, you know, like you said, it's not just our two households, you know, it wasn't just our households. That was like this. How many other families you know experience the same thing? Or women or sons experience this?

Kali: 1:03:06

you know type of trauma from their, you know mothers, or yeah, yeah and I think this show is going to be good for others, because there's so many people that want to talk about this, but they're just afraid to be black sheeped or ostracized or, you know, called by everybody why are you on there talking about your?

Kali: 1:03:28

mama, so they just hold it in, and so I think this is good that we're doing this. I think this is good because there's a lot of people that want to do this and it's just like they're scared to lose other people in their life. They're aunties, whoever's on their mom's team. Maybe that helps them hearing hearing. That's what courage because we were once in that you know you know, yeah, I mean when you start loving you, you don't need all them no more.

Speaker 2: 1:04:05

Anyway, like nope nope, and that's what we're doing. We're loving ourselves, we're loving ourselves. So, yeah, yeah, and that's hard to explain. Like I said, we'll probably go to a bunch of other women and men.

Kali: 1:04:20

I hope so. I hope so, and I I know, like people, I told people I was going to send this to my mom because I'm not in the mean way, I'm not trying to hurt her, but I need her to feel my pain. You need to understand it. Maybe this will make you feel something this time, because you don't get to talk back to me, you don't get to be like no, no, no, you just have to sit there and listen, nope and listen.

Speaker 2: 1:04:45

I'm going to say that that may help her, that may help your mother. Yeah, I hope so. Do you think she'll see your? Sometimes you have to see someone else's perspective of things.

Kali: 1:05:00

It just may.

Speaker 2: 1:05:01

It just may. Exactly as far as my mother, I'm not too sure. This is not the first time I've ever went live about this situation. This topic has been brought up a few times. I've done other interviews about this topic and I told you about an upcoming project. I don't know if I know it. I'll tell you about that project that I'm working on off camera. I'm not sure if I you know, told you before, but I'll, we'll talk about that, okay. Um, yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't know if this would, you know, change her. You know, mindset or mentality on the whole situation, or if this would correct her behavior. I'm not too sure.

Kali: 1:05:52

I think for me it's closure, because I never really I sat down with her and talked about some of the stuff but never actually told her as in this old. I just want you to recall this shit one more time. I don't know what's wrong with me, I just do. Before you go out, you really want to go out like this, or do you want to? And I think she probably will. I think she'll go out like that, but it's just like. I guess this is my Brian McKnight, my one last cry.

Speaker 2: 1:06:27

Were you ever able to go to her verbally? I did a couple times like you did um it always ends up an argument.

Kali: 1:06:39

Okay, so I was resolution or anything like that yeah, I haven't done it since I was, like you know, after 31 32.

Speaker 2: 1:06:47

I would talk to her in almost 10 years yeah, yeah, after this last situation, I really feel like I just I'm done trying. Like I told you before, I feel like your body will tell you when you're tired, when enough is enough. And, like you said, you got them babies. That don't mean you gotta have the babies around, that exactly. You went through it and the issue still wasn't correcting. You're going into adulthood with the same. You know effects from childhood, possibly exactly.

Speaker 2: 1:07:20

I know it's a lot of things I had to correct that I brought to my adulthood, that wasn't corrected during childhood and I wasn't aware of this until, you know I'm a woman. I had to have another grown woman tell me this Well, you know, zawana, that's not normal. No, you know you don't do that or it's not supposed to be like that. Those are things that I, you know, the things that she would bring up. You know one of my close mentors. She really had to correct me on a lot of things.

Speaker 2: 1:07:45

You'd be surprised, as a grown woman at my big old age, that you know there's a lot of things that I didn't think or know that was actually normal. You know, not normal, excuse me. That you know was dysfunctional. Yeah, growing up for so many years and no one else ever correcting. You know the issue and you know getting to the the root of the issue. It wasn't until adulthood. I'm a whole grown woman and just sometimes I'm embarrassed. I'm like you know what? Why should I have to be embarrassed? It's not my fault, it wasn't my problem.

Kali: 1:08:19

The people that are correcting you. They know that. They know that. You don't have to be embarrassed. I understand that emotion. To be corrected at this age is like sorry, it's not my fault, because it's like you know. To be corrected at this age is like sorry, you know, but it's like you know. Thank God we have somebody to correct us and that is bold enough to do it, because that's what our parents needed and we did it to them, yeah, so she was like you know, stop being hard on yourself.

Speaker 2: 1:08:49

You know you didn't know that. This wasn't, you know, normal and I'm like whoa. So I had to go back. And you know, teach my kids. You know you know different ways. I was brought up doing this. I was brought up, you know, I was taught this, taught that. One thing I won't ever teach them to do is that, you know, bring them up on lies and everything. That's one thing I will not do. Lies, a lot of love. They know I love them. I tell them daily, I show them daily. You know, anyway, it's not through gifts, it's actual love, like love and affection, tough love. You know I put my foot down. I'm your mother first. I'm not your little friend, I'm your mother first you know, period.

Speaker 2: 1:09:29

And another thing I do allow them to do that my mother didn't allow me to do or my father didn't allow me to do, was use my voice. You know, when I feel like you know, for example, if the kids feel like, you know, I was too hard on them or I wasn't listening to them, or you know they want to spend a little bit more time, you know, hey mom, can I come talk to you? You sure I ain't shutting you out like no, get out the room. I, you know, I don't want to hear it. No, what, what do you want? You know, I mean, I'm very, you know, attentive when it comes to them, and I didn't have that growing up. So I'm totally different. When you know, in a lot of areas, yep, yep and we're breaking the cycle.

Kali: 1:10:08

I'm very hands-on with my kids. You, I play with them. I'm always doing stuff with them and making activities. I see that I'm still like I guess I'm still being a kid with them, yep, and so yeah, I don't know how they did that it's like being a mom. Now that also validates, like how could you do that?

Speaker 2: 1:10:30

I'm a mom now and it's like that.

Kali: 1:10:31

Could you do that? I'm a mom now and it's like that validates that that shit was wrong. Even more Because I love my kids so much. I'm just like I can never not like them the way you didn't like me.

Speaker 2: 1:10:43

That's sad to feel that emotion at such a young age, the disconnect.

Kali: 1:10:49

At such a young age, no emotional connection yeah, it's been a very awkward childhood because you know, like I've watched, like all my friends have great relationship with their mothers or just their households. Be you know, even if the dad wasn't there, it was just like they had great family orientation and Right. Why is their mom so happy without a dad? Right?

Speaker 2: 1:11:15

It can be done. It can, because they make you that slave mentality. They make you think that you can't do it. All Black women are miserable or mad Black women because they're single mothers and a senator. No, change that narrative. That's not. That's not the case. You can still be a happy woman and a single mother. It's up to you, it's really up to you. It's really up to you.

Kali: 1:11:45

You can be trying to show my kids that and other women like you know there's so many women like, oh, I can't do this, I'm a single mom. It's like tap into your natural talent. You know you got to love the journey, though you know that you dread in being the mom. Yeah, you know, that's another thing, you know. So it's like it's a lot of that we we gonna have to do like two, three episodes on this because it's like it's, it's the, the, the one you said the black lie, like oh, when you do that show, definitely have me on, you know. And then you know, and it's just so much more that I think is in our culture, more than any culture, and it needs to stop, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:12:33

so you know it's like people say they want to stop but they're not. You know, doing the work, doing the work. Doing the work is, you know, setting boundaries. You really have to be strict on you know setting boundaries.

Kali: 1:12:46

You have to be really consistent, knowing what you're going to allow, knowing what you're not going to allow, like really and all you say that I walk around looking like the person that say don't be their friend, no more, you can't be there. That's how that sounds to people, right? And it's like, oh god, okay, first they gotta hear it in a different way. They're hearing it from a toxic place, right? So that's the problem, first and foremost. So it's like I sound crazy because I'm like what do you mean don't talk to my mom. Whatever I mean.

Speaker 2: 1:13:24

It's not like that, it's deeper. You really have to just pull them to the side. It's not like I don't want you to talk to such and such, such, but here are some things that I want to bring to your attention. You know, there's some things that I endured growing up and some things that I still see, you know, in her things that you're allowing in your cycle of your generation, that you're creating now you know, it's like you know, I, just like you said, I refuse to do it.

Kali: 1:13:51

So yeah, so when you are ready to talk about um, I'm having a show, about I'm gonna have entrepreneurs on, so when you're ready to get your project marketing and you want people to know about it, you're definitely welcome to come back and talk about it um when you're ready, if you want to, because I'm showcasing women like us.

Kali: 1:14:13

We're going to have a whole show about women like us, um, that are doing projects, probably based on our pain. Okay, we're doing. You, you, you do. I. I think a lot of the stuff we do is, um, it's survivor's remorse, you know. So we start and start, and people always wonder why we want to help so bad and love so bad and give so much. Yeah, I'm sure your project is probably based around a lot of that. You know, loving and giving, oh for sure, because that's all you want to do, because you have this energy like I don't want nobody to feel like me, so you just want to love and approve.

Speaker 2: 1:14:56

I don't want anyone to feel. That's why I'm trying to connect with the youth. You know what I mean, because it started very young for me, you know, for you know the both of us. It started very young. So if I can connect with the youth, you know, like I'm doing right now, then I think things will be you know better, like I'm doing right now, then I think things will be, you know better just putting a positive message in their ears. You know, and everything. And you know, like I said, you know, you know, we aren't the only women who probably experienced this. Just a lot of people just won't come out, you know, and say anything because they're scared of what everyone else may think, or the other, or breaking, you know, breaking up the families and all the other stuff.

Kali: 1:15:34

Yeah, so I thank you for your time and being transparent. I know this show was like I didn't know how it was going to go. I had some paper towel over here just in case I started crying.

Speaker 2: 1:15:44

I didn't know how it was going to go.

Kali: 1:15:46

I didn't know what to say. I'm going to cry. I'm going to tell you little stories about my little, like those whippings and stuff. It's not even that I'm crying because I'm still hurt. It's like it will be like it's like third person. Seeing someone else tell that story would make me cry too. You know what I'm saying. Or hearing a four-year-old tell that story now I would break all the way down. So it's like in that sense. So it's like I'm yeah, but I love to talk to you tonight and I thank you for your time and I'm going to get locked in.

Speaker 2: 1:16:19

Likewise. I know I apologize for that.

Kali: 1:16:22

No, thank you for keep trying. I'm glad that you didn't give up. So that's all I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 1:16:28

I said this. You know I feel like this would be important, you know, for the both of us to talk about, or? You know, I got my butt on here and I got on.

Kali: 1:16:37

We're not done. We're going to be talking on platform soon, because it goes further than this.

Speaker 2: 1:16:42

It does the black line.

Kali: 1:16:46

I see like in the future. I see see like with my club going around nationwide helping people, and you know so I'm trying to build a team of people that are like us. So it doesn't stop here. Whenever you want to talk to me or have me on your show or anything like I told you in the inbox that you need me to do for you, your uh websites or anything you're doing. You're more than welcome to ask me woman empowerment yes, yes.

Speaker 2: 1:17:17

I'm all for it, so you know that.

Kali: 1:17:20

So anything anytime you need. You know, don't feel I'm not them people. You can ask me. Okay, I offered it. So, um, I want to see you do good, I want to see spread your love, you know. So, yeah, thank you for coming on the D for the week show and thank you guys for watching. And again, zawanda, thank you for being transparent and I hope to see your project take off.

Kali: 1:17:47

I'll be keeping in touch because now you know you got a networker, so I'll be checking in on you now you got a networker, I'll be checking in on you and asking if you need help in networking and helping you market what's necessary and stuff like that. Again, have a great night. If you ever need to talk, I'm here too, you got my number.

Speaker 2: 1:18:04

I got your number. I got your little Facebook. I got all your social networks.

Kali: 1:18:10

You're welcome to call anytime. I'm always up, working on something. The only thing I can do is not answer. Don't ever feel like you're bothering me. You'll answer when you're available. You're never bothering me. That's all I want you to know.

Speaker 2: 1:18:26

I love your energy.

Kali: 1:18:27

Again, I thank you for joining me. It was great to have you today. Thank you, guys, for watching. I'm a little nervous, you don't have to be, we're good people here.

Speaker 2: 1:18:39

I talk so much and do so much speaking in front of people, I'm nervous for a second and then I always unravel.

Kali: 1:18:47

I'm still getting used to it, but it gets easier every time.

Speaker 2: 1:18:51

I didn't know what I would talk about, how deep I was going to go, or whatever. Yeah, we are good.

Kali: 1:18:59

It's nice to get acquainted.

Speaker 2: 1:19:01

This is not going to be our only conversation.

Kali: 1:19:03

Oh no, we're going to stay acquainted.

Speaker 2: 1:19:04

When I'm in.

Kali: 1:19:05

Houston, I'm definitely going to hit you up for lunch. We're going to stay acquainted. I feel like I'm making a friend in you, so we're gonna get to know each other more and stuff and um and add to each other's lives you know, okay, yeah. So thanks for joining me on the d for the week show and thank you guys for watching. Thank you and.